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Talk:Judge's Steel
The Judge's Steel is a somewhat different weapon than a Cutlass, as it is somewhat a crossover between a Master Cutlass and a Master Katana in the following ways: :-By looking at the damage, which is 71, you can see that this is the same damage as a Master Katana. :-By looking at the speed, it is said to be fast, similar to a Katana. :-But the symbol, located on the top left of the picture of the Judge's Steel, lists it to be a Cutlass. The only explanation is that Lionhead wanted to put in a unique type of weapon, or they merely made a mistake. [[User:Thunderstream328|'Knothole Knight']] [[User Talk:Thunderstream328|'Scroll']] 18:30, 6 June 2009 (UTC) Judge's Steel This sword is a blatant reference to Judge Dredd. For those not in the know about this popular British comic book character he's a hero obsessed with the pursuit of justice and brutally punishes wrongdoers, and is known for not giving any leeway. Another worthy mention is that to acquire it you need to trade Monk's Robes, which Judge Dredd (and the other Judges) essentially are since they're required to remain celibate and are part of an order of sorts. Lionhead like to pack their games full of references to British culture and how nobody picked up on this (and seem insistent on hiding it on this very wiki) is beyond me. Unless there's maybe another famous British judge in British pop culture? Anyone? 15:17, August 20, 2013 (UTC)Anonymous :Dredd never used a sword, his weapon was always a gun or his fists. If this weapon was a gun then maybe it could be a reference. References in Fable do not need to be British related, there have been numerous based around American culture. Reading the description, it is more likely this is a reference to Final Fantasy 12, in which there are characters known as Judges who use swords to deal justice. So, which is more likely? A sword referring to a gun user or a sword user? Either way, its personal opinion on which reference is true as both might be true, we don't know 100% and thus cannot add it to the article.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 22:38, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :...it doesn't need to be a gun to be a Judge Dredd reference, just a primary weapon and dispenser of Judge justice. I don't recall Master Chief having worn full Medieval plate armour, nor his gun to be an old flintlock pistol yet there they are. Nor is it a Final Fantasy 12 reference since Judge Dredd is far and away the more recognisable British icon, his obsession with hard justice being well known enough to have two Hollywood movies made about him. Any idiot with two brain cells to rub together and a familiarity with British culture would automatically assume this to be the obvious Dredd reference that it is. It's not like Lionhead ever fill their games with British pop culture references or anything. Maybe you should edit out all of the references on this wiki since they're all pure speculation? Honestly, British games are wasted on foreigners if you can't even pick up the references. Should maybe leave wiki editing in British hands in future I think. 23:06, August 20, 2013 (UTC)Anonymous ::Now you are just being impossible. Hal's Armor and weapons are designed to LOOK like Master Chiefs, hence the obvious reference. The only thing that is close to this weapon being a reference to Judge Dredd is a description of Justice and Judges, but that's it no looking like anything from Judge Dredd, no being closely linked to Judge Dredd. Hell even the sword referencing Final Fantasy 7 is better classed. Again, the references in Fable do not have to be British to be a reference, they just need to be of a direct link to what they are referencing, more so then your claim of a Judge Dredd reference. It'd need to be something closely related to him, not some weapon he never used with an obscure mention of Justice in its description. And now your also being racist, keep that kind of attitude up and it can result in a blocking. What does being British or not have to do with knowing a reference or lack of from knowing of what someone is claiming to be the reference?--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 23:14, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :::I do not know enough about Judge Dredd to be of use to the point of this discussion. However, I would like to request that you refrain from to-and-fro edits on the article (on both sides, regardless of its current state) until after the issue is sorted. Trivial references almost always cause some kind of issue, and the only way we'll get through them (aside from wiping them all out) is if we handle each one with civility. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 00:03, August 21, 2013 (UTC) :::Got some views from TDH (they haven't read the whole discussion, I just asked them whether they thought it was a reference or not): :::MatthewAllen: Hrm. That was before the remake came out, so it'd have to be a reference to the original, which seems like more of a stretch. Not sure, really. The fact that it says "White Judge" makes me think it might not be a reference to the film. Not familiar with any other white judges though. :::Funslinger: It doesn't seem like there's anything particularly indicative that it's a Judge Dredd reference. :::Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 00:12, August 21, 2013 (UTC) :::It being British has a great deal to do with it, since Lionhead are British and pack their games chock full of references to British pop culture, as in this case since it's very obviously meant as a Judge Dredd reference, since whenever anyone talks about judges and extreme justice that's the very first thing that springs to mind. He's essentially a warrior monk with a black and white moral absolutist way of looking at the world who deals with perceived evil in the most extreme manner and works for something called the Justice Department. I understand that you guys don't get it, since you're very obviously *not* British but he's a comic character as familiar to Britons as Dennis the Menace or Desperate Dan (you won't have heard of them either, of course). The only reason I can think of why you'd edit this out is because of anti-British racism. Again though you'd be as well going through every other reference on this wiki and editing out every other reference because they refer to tropes in British culture and that obviously offends you so very much. For example the Brodican armour must obviously be talking about the Chinese, with their polite ways and fondness for tea and chit chat, rather than anything British, aye? ::::Actually for your information, I am British. So you can't come in here with your supposed superiority claiming that only British people would know it. And again, you are going to a racist angle which will lead to a blocking. The reason we edit it out is because there is not enough to support your claim, the only thing even close to a reference is the extreme justice angle, but that could be about anything. Heck it could even be about the Lone Ranger, who dressed all in white and took Justice to an extreme level. Maybe if it said something like "This sword once belonged to a Hero who was a member of a group of justice dealers known as the White Judges, and the Hero who owned this sword was dreaded throughout the land" then we could say it is a dredd reference but there is just too little to support it, hence why it was removed over two years ago. And for your added information, not every reference in Fable is British, there are numerous American, Japanese, Chinese etc. You are acting like a British Supremacist, kinda like how Hilter was a German Supremacist. As I said previously in an edit, keep things here and if you can get a consensus vote in your favour then we can leave the reference there, until that time it should remain off the article due to not enough supporting it.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 07:18, August 21, 2013 (UTC) ::::It's hardly being racist claiming that a reference is British in origin, which Dredd is. And no evidence? The wiki page on Brodican armour makes note of the reference to Boudica and the Iceni and there's even less evidence for that than there is for this, so there's your precedent. As to this not being a Dredd reference, it's about as blatant as it goes. A moral absolutist Judge who dealt out extreme justice to evildoers? That's basically a summary of Dredd in his entirety, and would be familiar to any Briton (or anyone else who's ever heard of Dredd, which after two blockbuster Hollywood movies and over 30 years of comics is more than a few). Arguing otherwise is like proclaiming cats to be dogs. Arguing for the sake of arguing, essentially. :::::I was saying that your comment of how only a Brit would get the reference, and that this game should remain British came off racist to me. As for the reference around the Brodican armour, the reference wasn't removed by at least 3 users over a period of 2 years, had it been then I'd have said the same to the person trying to add it: Get a consensus vote in regards to it. It could also be a reference to Judge Hart of Marvel fame, a Judge who came back after death as a pale white spirit dealing out harsh justice. Or perhaps the comic character known only as Vigilante, who in one incarnation was a Judge who would take the law and justice into his own hands, going even as far as to kill petty thieves. A possible solution to this argument could be to put that the sword is a possible reference to many heroic characters who took an extreme view on justice, much like the White Judge mentioned. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm merely pointing out that the reference is slim at best, its too vague to confirm that its one definite reference.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 01:38, August 22, 2013 (UTC) :::::Thing is though those other characters are extremely vague and obscure. I only brought up the British thing because I'm not sure how well known Judge Dredd is across the pond, but in Britain he's as well established as Dennis the Menace or Desperate Dan. Adding that the sword could possibly reference other likely candidates seems an acceptable compromise however. This being Lionhead it's very likely the sword is referencing at least one of them, so might as well mention a few of the most potential candidates and let others decide.